GHB,GBL,1,4-B THREAD!

[cosmic ruler]

This thread is for people to discuss dosage, effects and experiences with GBL,GHB and 1,4-B.
These may include things like pleasant/unpleasant experiences,specific dosage questions,health questions,regarding chemistry,addiction etc ...


ABBREVIATIONS:

GBL=gamma-Butyrolactone
GHB=Gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid
1,4-B=1,4-Butanediol

Slang names:

Wazz,Juice,Drinks,\"G\",Fantasy,liquid E,liquid X,GBH,Grevious bodily harm..

GBL:

\"gamma-Butyrolactone (γ-butyrolactone or GBL) is a hygroscopic colorless oily liquid with a weak characteristic odor and is soluble in water. GBL is a common solvent and reagent in chemistry and is used as an aroma compound, as a stain remover, as a superglue remover, as a paint stripper, and as a solvent in some wet aluminium electrolytic capacitors.\"

GHB:

\"gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid (4-hydroxybutanoic acid, C4H8O3), commonly abbreviated GHB, is a naturally-occurring substance found in the central nervous system, wine, beef, small citrus fruits, and almost all animals in small amounts.[1] It is also a neuroprotective therapeutic nutrient that is confusingly categorized as an illegal drug in a number of countries.[2] It is currently regulated in the US and sold by Jazz Pharmaceuticals under the name Xyrem.\"


1,4-Butanediol:

Commonly known and referred to in New Zealand as 1,4-B.
\"1,4-Butanediol is the organic compound with the formula HOCH2CH2CH2CH2OH. This colorless viscous liquid is derived from butane by placement of alcohol groups at each end of the chain. It is one of four stable isomers of butanediol.\"

*Please DONT discuss prices, sources or events on this forum!!!!

[Johnny Blaze]

how long is the length of intoxication?

[peakn]

swim will report on ghb after weekend

[cosmic ruler]

Dratske wrote:

how long is the length of intoxication?

Depends which substance swiy ingests.

GBL is strongest,then GHB then 1,4-B is weakest.

Each person needs to find what a good dose for them personally is.
The best and safest way to do this is to 1st try and identify which substance swiy has (GBL,GHB,1,4-B).
Clue:
Generally speaking GBL smells(stinks),wont freeze and will melt hard plastics(cellphones,laptops) etc...
GHB: is slightly salty to the taste,will not freeze.
1,4-B:Has very little smell,is quite thick and gloopy and will freeze at 20 degrees celcius or less!

Then using an accurate 1ml,3mlor 5ml dropper,measure out 1ml into a glass add some juice and drink...
wait an hour or so,if swiy doesnt feel itmaybe have another 0.5ml etcetc etc...making sure to waita good hourin between.
CAUTION:These doses will build up ontop of each other thru the night and sometimes this can cause people to \"wazz out\"(comatose)...if people dothis,place into recovery position and monitor breathing(usually people just sleep for couple hours)...
If people stop breathing call AMBULANCE IMMEDIATLY!

[Rollin]

SWIM has recently got hold of some GBL and gonna try it out this weekend, so assuming swim follows your guide of 1ml then wait an hour how much would u recommend for over the whole night? Cheers

[nemesys]

>.< don\'t state possession or intent to consume illegal drugs

[cosmic ruler]

^^exactly.

also no1 can give definate informatan regarding dosage,as each individuals dose can vary significantly.
the above information is a guide only.
SWIM does not recommend obtaining or consuming illegal substances and writes this as hypothetical in the name of harm reduction.
just be wary and have patience.

[Johnny Blaze]

thanks heaps Cosmic ruler!! this is a valuable thread as I hear it can be very easy to go wrong if you\'re not careful with G,
also swiy claimed that g is worse for you then p and that people swiy knew who got addicted to it are worse then people they know on p, from what i know i really disagree with this but I dont know alot about g compared to other substances so some comments on how people feel about that statement would be much appreciated
peace!

[Rollin]

nemesys wrote:

>.< don\'t state possession or intent to consume illegal drugs

sorry. didnt think i had lol, ive edited it anyway should be all good now.

[peakn]

lol g worse for u than p. not a fucking chance mate g produces no toxic metabolites where as methamphetamine is quite neurotoxic. g is one of the safest substances there is

[cosmic ruler]

yea...\"G\" seems to get and has got a bad reputation based on those ignorant/arrogant fools that either thru lack of education or \'think im the man syndrome\' and can handle more than any1 attitude\' \"wazz out\" in public places etc.
\"G\" has also been given a slightly unfair label by the media as the \'date rape drug\'.
SWIM has seen many,many,many experienced and responsible users that never have any problems while using or from using \"G\" and thinks these labels arrise from swiys not being fully educated about dosage and usage etc.
SWIM has a scientific paper somewhere that states \"G\"(GHB?) as being 1/10 as bad for people as alcohol.
\"G\" is mostly excreted out through users paws as CO2 and therefore doesnt have the same bad effects on kidneys/livers etc etc..
Like anydrug or substance that makes users feel euphoric,\"G\" can be addictive and there is alot of proof of this in europe where GBL is still legally available...but swim thinks in nZ this is very minor in relation to the amount of people addicted to methamphetamine!!!
Swim will add more guidelines and better information when swim has time...

[peakn]

what cosmic ruler said:)

[Johnny Blaze]

im kind of confused, does it come literally as the stated dose like for instance only 10 ml of solution if you had 10mls or is it watered down usually? because wouldnt it be hard to accurately measure out a dose if its watered down? sorry if you dont understand i worded that really shit

[nemesys]

the widely varying and unpredictable concentration of gbl, ghb and 1,4b is one of the main reasons it is such a dangerous drug, which is kinda funny because when it was still legal doses could be accurately measured. now you have no real way of knowing how strong your g is, so the best thing to do when you get a fresh batch is to always start back at 1ml doses. remember, you can add more later but cant take it back if you have too much. also, if you are getting GBL i would highly recommend converting it to NaGHB because in the process you will be able to deecide the concentration for yourself so you know how much you\'re dosing, and it\'s considered to be a nicer high. check on erowid for directions, it\'s a piece of piss and doesn\'t involve any hard-to-get chemicals.

[cosmic ruler]

very true nemesys..

Some assholes have been caught \'watering\' \'G\' with other solvents and/or with DH2O,but usually reliable sources and people with half a brain will NEVER water drinks as it makes it hard to accurately dose!
Some guy in Wellington was done a few years ago for selling solvents mixed together that smelled and looked with GBL but had NO \'G\' in it at all!
Try and only get thru reliable,trustworthy sources!

peace.

[irie]

WOW! Does anyone know what sort of buzz this gives you??

[cosmic ruler]

its specualated that it causes a euphoria that feels somewhat like a cross between Alcohol and Ecstacy(MDMA)...
Users can experience a lack of inhibition,and openness and alot of users report hypersexuality( become really horney)...

Never mix with alcohol tho!!!

Apparantly \"G\" mixes very nicely with MDMA and/or Methamphetamine.

[nemesys]

lol crack n waz... heard some CRAZY stories about that lol

[Johnny Blaze]

i must say that sounds like a perfect substance! magical almost the kind of thing worth going on a quest for, anyone able to share any experiences???

[Johnny Blaze]

fuck yeah swim is cranking on this shit right now so good, new favourite high swim thinks....dubstep allstars vol.5 plus 3ml of G equals fun!!! (dont judge me caus its tuesday afternoon haha)

[burzum]

Haha I found it to be a bit like alcohol.
Haha nice on bro.
Im quite fond of ketamine on a wednesdays noon!

[psyko_man_josh]

Been reading up on this quite alot recently. Defenitly something to try in the future. Anyone know what the come down is like? Heard some stories that it was one of the worst experienced but that makes me think that it wasnt too pure product.

Dratske: Who cares its only Tuesday, swim woke up this morning after charging all night and got on the piss and whatever else with the rest of the Uni bums who couldnt be fucked making it to class. Weekdays are great, less people about.

[psyko_man_josh]

On another note, was just wondering if Fantasy is still around much these days. Not that I have any intentions of obtaining any!!! I just remember years ago reading and watching on the news that this was the next big thing then it just seemed to vanish. I dont recall ever hearing about G from anyone over the last few years.

[Johnny Blaze]

no come down compadre, swim feels completely normal..... swims friend swiy vomited and comared when she tried but still woke up with absolutly no hangover

and i think its pretty common aye not too sure tho

[cosmic ruler]

zero comedowns...unless used in large quantitys daily...

ALWAYS START WITH LOW DOSES AND WORK SWIYS WAY UP ETC
+wait at least an hour or 2 between doses otherwise doses will build ontop of each other and causethe effect known as \'wazzing out\'!

seems common enough in the rite circles...

Most \'G\' found in NZ nowadays is either 1,4-B,or GBL as these are both still used in industry as opposed to GHB which isnt!

[mrmattman]

hey can anyone clear sumthng up for me.
is mils ghb?
i recenly moved here from aus and ghb is only really called fantasy ther.

sum people have told me that mils is ghb but then others have said its different alltogether and is in fact cd cleaner or sum shit???
so yeah can someone please clear this up for me .
cheers.

[cosmic ruler]

\'mils\' or \'mls\' is a term used for GHB,GBL and/or 1,4-Butanediol in New Zealand!

It is just another slang term used not unlike the media calling it \'fantasy\' or \'liquid e\'...

1,4-Butanediol used to be legally marketed in NZ as CD cleaner...GBL and 1,4-B are both used as industrial solvents and are actually quite enviromentally friendly...
These products are also used in the same way as GHB and give very similar effects,although as alwaysbe very careful and tread with care!!!

[mrmattman]

ah yup sweet
cheers yo

[hollymay]

my partners friends are forever saying it is cd cleaner because in fact they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to GBL i have seen what happens to cds when it is dropped on them and it definitely does not clean them!
it seems to be a bad rumour that seems will always be around :blink:
it is however something printers use for cleaning printing cylinders and what not.

[Consulate]

Cd cleaner or Leather Cleaner is Ammo

Or Amyl Nitrate

[BobFredsoap]

swim has had a few magical, saturdays on the beach of late drinking smoking and wazzing!!
swim finds 2mls to get going then another 2 an hour later then more later on seems to be the ticket however swim can handle his shit and has seen amatuers try to keep up with swim with not good results so remember kids just cos he can does not mean you can, effects of substances work differently on everyone especially if your not used to it so be careful when mixing this summer and remember the sun especially when you wazzed out it can be a killer!

[Grimm]

is it just swim or does wazz make swiy talk absolute shit when taken not at a gig

[EccieMan]

Information on GBL/GHB for your interest:

Standard recreation effects can be euphoria, hallucinations and similar symptoms to being drunk. Users who OD become unconscious, vomit, have a slow heart rate, develop hypothermia, low blood pressure and respiratory depression. The amount of GBL/GHB that can cause euphoria and the amount that can cause death may differ by only 0.1ml.

[cosmic ruler]

Information on GBL/GHB for your interest:

Standard recreation effects can be euphoria, hallucinations and similar symptoms to being drunk. Users who OD become unconscious, vomit, have a slow heart rate, develop hypothermia, low blood pressure and respiratory depression. The amount of GBL/GHB that can cause euphoria and the amount that can cause death may differ by only 0.1ml.


although GBL and GHB have steep dose response reactions,i dont think the above comment is truthful..

"The amount of GBL/GHB that can cause euphoria and the amount that can cause death may differ by only 0.1ml.[/"

surely youd be feeling quite shit b4 dieing most times???
where was that quoted from??any papers to back that comment up??

[Captain]

GHB in humans include somnolence leading to arousable sleep at 40-50 mg/kg and, at 60-70 mg/kgj coma for 1-2 hours (generally without depression of the reticular activating system).The LD50 has been estimated at 5-15 times that inducing coma.''^ GHB and alcohol have synergistic hypnotic effects.^^ Introduction of GHB into the United States over-the-counter market in the spring of 1990 was rapidly followed by reports of adverse effects at doses from 1 tsp. (approximately 2.5 g) to 4 tbs. (approximately 30 g)
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119158075/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Gamma-hydroxybutyrate: an emerging drug of abuse that causes physical dependence

for people who dont know how ld50 is measured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50

[EccieMan]

although GBL and GHB have steep dose response reactions,i dont think the above comment is truthful..

"The amount of GBL/GHB that can cause euphoria and the amount that can cause death may differ by only 0.1ml.[/"

surely youd be feeling quite shit b4 dieing most times???
where was that quoted from??any papers to back that comment up??

Quoted from an Ambulance training manual on the most common recreational drugs in New Zealand and how to treat them in the ambulance setting.

[cosmic ruler]

Quoted from an Ambulance training manual on the most common recreational drugs in New Zealand and how to treat them in the ambulance setting.

well in my 10 years of experience with GHB,GBL and 1,4-B...i still find that statement untruthful,and tbh it seems the medical profession in NZ doesnt seem to be very well trained in 'g' overdoses!!!
especially when there has been a 'cocktail' or drugs consumed or more specifically ecstacy and 'g' or methamphetamine and 'g'!!!

what exactly does the ambulance manual say to do when some1 has overdosed on either GBL,GHB or 1,4-B???

joelza are you refferring to GHB,GBL or 1,4-B???because each is slightly different!!!

know what you take and take what you know!!!!

[SubConcious]

Swim is gonna be trying this for the first time. Any advice, dosage reccomendations etc ?

[Grimm]

really depends on what susbstance swiy is taking, l is alot strong than h, swims had 3 mill dose of l and been really wazzy then had 4+ mill dose of h and felt only little effects. identify substance, normally start off one 1 mill then wait about hour - hour and half before taking more

[cosmic ruler]

most 'mils' around are either GBL or 1,4-B...it is very rare to find actual GHB for sale in this day and age,as both GBL and 1,4-B are used in manufacturing and GHB has NO commercial use!
So alot of the time when people are referring to 'H' they are actually talking about and consuming 1,4-Butanediol.

Start on low doses(1 or 1.5 mls)

Wait between 1.5-2 hours at least before re-dosing,

Make sure you have an accurate measuring device(like a ml dropper,which is a syringe without the needle)

NEVER consume with alcohol or downers,and if possible always get from people that are knowledgable/experienced and for 1st time users,have a sober minder present!!!


For a quick way to test whether you are getting GBL or 1,4-B which is by no means foolproof...

Pure GBL reacts with hard plastics(like cellphones,laptops etc etc) and 1,4-B does NOT!
GBL does not freeze.
1,4-Butanediol will freeze at 20 degrees or less(ie,if its cold outside or if you put in the fridge it should look like a block of ice)
GBL stinks kind of like petrol etc,whereas 1,4-B doesnt have such a smell!!

for more indepth info read threads on ERowid etc etc

keep safe..its ALWAYS better to have not enough than too much!!!

peace

[Grimm]

h is def around as well and having all 3, u can def tell the difference, 1, 4b is quite thick and goopy whereas h isnt, both dont taste as bad as L tho, but effects are r very different with lengths of onset and pleateus

[cosmic ruler]

h is def around as well and having all 3, u can def tell the difference, 1, 4b is quite thick and goopy whereas h isnt, both dont taste as bad as L tho, but effects are r very different with lengths of onset and pleateus

im still dubious of this 'H' people lay claims to...

Most 'wazz' around is GBL or 1,4-B!
They are still used in Manufacturing and therefore are cheaper/easier to source etc...

GHB should have a slightly salty taste to it when consumed and doses would be similar to 1,4-B..

[EccieMan]

what exactly does the ambulance manual say to do when some1 has overdosed on either GBL,GHB or 1,4-B???!

Airway care is number one priority. Respiratory arrest is the main cause of death in GBL/GHB and associated drugs. Generally a person who has overdosed will go into a deep coma and require their airway and breathing to be managed for them, and provided nothing else goes wrong then they will generally suddenly wake up as the effect wears off and hopefully have no further problems (unless there was a long time period of respiratory arrest).

[cosmic ruler]

Airway care is number one priority. Respiratory arrest is the main cause of death in GBL/GHB and associated drugs. Generally a person who has overdosed will go into a deep coma and require their airway and breathing to be managed for them, and provided nothing else goes wrong then they will generally suddenly wake up as the effect wears off and hopefully have no further problems (unless there was a long time period of respiratory arrest).

that sounds about right...
but what if the patient is 'thrashing' around and getting violent in between periods of hardly breathing??ie connsumed large amounts of meth etc??
Wouldnt airway care be a main priority in every medical situation??

in my experience if patients are simply 'wazzing' out giving them mild stimulants seems to wake them up and keep them alive until they return to 'normalality'...dont know if thats in the manual..but experience says it seems to work!!

peace

[Captain]

that sounds about right...
but what if the patient is 'thrashing' around and getting violent in between periods of hardly breathing??ie connsumed large amounts of meth etc??
Wouldnt airway care be a main priority in every medical situation??

in my experience if patients are simply 'wazzing' out giving them mild stimulants seems to wake them up and keep them alive until they return to 'normalality'...dont know if thats in the manual..but experience says it seems to work!!

peace

Just did my comprehensive first aid... they say if there is any danger for the rescuer (in this situation the person is a crazy methhead) then they should not intervene....

if indeed the airway had been compromised and the person had become comatosed I would assume you could intervene then; police would be on their way quicksmart if anyone radioed in about drug fuelled issues so they would be not far away.

First responders stand back until police secure the scene before intervening when drug use is involved.

[EccieMan]

that sounds about right...
but what if the patient is 'thrashing' around and getting violent in between periods of hardly breathing??ie connsumed large amounts of meth etc??
Wouldnt airway care be a main priority in every medical situation??

in my experience if patients are simply 'wazzing' out giving them mild stimulants seems to wake them up and keep them alive until they return to 'normalality'...dont know if thats in the manual..but experience says it seems to work!!

peace

Airway care is only important when there is an obstruction or if the patient is not breathing in which case airway devices are used.....anyhoo.....if someone has taken multiple drugs (which the majority of OD cases have) then essentially just treat what you see. Sometimes the meth might override the GBL etc and sometimes the other way round. Sometimes they might do something random like have a seizure. Serious OD's from illegal drugs are very rare in NZ anyway. Surprising how much the body can handle.

[bark]

I'm not sure how i am supposed to start my own topic/ post ...whatever....

[bark]

about quitting and recovery, i'm scared to stop, using around the clock....

[bluntmuffin]

The best way and SAFEST is to have a slow taper-off. This will not be easy. Certainly not as easy as getting wasted hard whenever you feel like it.

A slow taper is where you progressively have less and less. Do not stop cold, because things like alcohol and GHB can cause the Central Nervous System (CNS) to go into overdrive to combat the sedative effects, and with the sedative removed, your CNS will still be extremely stimulated and will take a long time to rebuild itself normally.
I don't know the best way to slow taper. But a reasonably common way is to have only 90% of what you had last time. Then 90% of 90% (which is 81% of the original amount), then 90% of 90% of 90% (which is 73% of the original amount), etc. You will slowly reach the bottom. But you will feel crappy, especially if you have a physical addiction. Maybe use incence blends as a legal way to manage your way though, as these can be quit with only 1 week of cold-turkey.

Also, get some multivitamins and take them daily. You're probably gonna be deficient in B-vitamins.